Becoming a WordPress Theme Developer with Andy Wilkerson Part 1

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Now, today’s episode is part one of two parts with my friend Andy Wilkerson who is a professional theme developer. He owns a couple of theme shops and they’re doing very well for him. And it’s two parts because I wanted to ask him how he built his business but I also wanted to talk generally about the development, right? On the show we talked a lot about building specific things and I figured this would be a nice opportunity to teach those who don’t make themes yet, how to make themes. So this is part one of part two. Part two will be out next week and it’s a really great conversation in general. I know I say that a lot but I am sincere every time.

So let’s get onto part one where Andy talks about building his business. And without further ado on with the show.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to another episode of How I Built It, the podcast that asks “How did you build that?” Today, my guest is Andy Wilkerson of Parallelus and UpThemes. Andy, how are you?

Andy Wilkerson: I’m doing great. Thanks for having me on, Joe.

Joe Casabona: Hey, no problem. Thanks for being on the show. We were connected a little while back. Thanks to Matt Pritchett and we quickly realized we would be friends forever ’cause we like, we agree on a lot of things philosophically and we love WordPress and scrubs and cigars. So those are, those are the things that are important, right?

Andy Wilkerson: That’s right. The best things that there are out there right?

Joe Casabona: Yeah, absolutely. And so this is going to be kind of part one of a two part series on just generally building for WordPress. I talked to a lot of people about how they build specific products. Most of them are within the WordPress space but we never get to the general bits of it. And he will talk about this more when he introduces himself. But Andy built themes. And so I wanna talk more about general theme development today than anything else. So Andy, why don’t you tell us a little bit about who you are, and what you do, and what kind of themes you build?

Andy Wilkerson: Sure. I’d love to. So I am a theme builder, theme developer. I have a bunch of different ways now that I go about doing that. And when I got started it was through Envato and selling on ThemeForest. And we did a bunch of stuff there, broke away from that, but not so much developing and putting things on there anymore. But selling threw UpThemes now and we acquired UpThemes.com about this time a year ago. So we’re just coming up almost on an anniversary. Therefore when that became a Parallelus business and that’s been an interesting journey. I mean we’ve been doing this in the WordPress space since 2010 now so the evolution of what a theme is and what goes into it and all the different working parts. And it’s changed so much that it really has forced me to have to evolve in how I think about theme building and what I want to create when I am doing a project. So it’s definitely something that there’s a lot to it now. It’s no longer just a simple design job, but we do love doing it.

Joe Casabona: Yeah, that’s awesome. So you got started especially on aThemeForest from Envato. So maybe you could talk a little bit about what that was like? And then as much as you want to talk about here, what made you make the leap to kind of your own shop?

Andy Wilkerson: Yeah. Definitely getting started on ThemeForest was basically an ease of entry kind of thing. I was already, I had another job. I was working full time for a business that we had a proprietary content management system that we developed and sold. I was looking for a way to start my own sort of thing and I knew I wasn’t going to be with that company for too much longer ’cause I just, I was going to, I had decided I was gonna make a change. And in the process of trying to figure out what that change was going to be exactly, I had this great idea for what I was going to develop this SAAS product and it was amazing and it was incredibly powerful and it could do everything. And my wife asked me, she’s like, ”You know that thing that you were gonna build, like how long would that take in?” I was said something like “Probably six months for the initial development” and then you know, and I gave her some other stuff and she goes like two or three years and Andy time. And I just said “Yes, pretty much.” and she goes, “So what about that other thing you told me about that ThemeForest place? How long would it take you to make something to put on there0?” And I said, “I don’t know. A few weeks maybe.” And she said, “Well why not just for fun, try and make something to sell on there, see how it goes. And if you like it or if it works out well then you can use that to maybe make some money to pay for this other thing or whatever you wanna do.” I said, “Yeah, yeah” you know, ’cause my wife’s really smart and she usually has great ideas. So I made an HTML template, I put it up on Envato in December of 2009 right before Christmas. It’s the best possible time ever for theme developers to launch any sort of product because you will have zero sales and you will absolutely get to see how painful it is to have a failed first launch of a product. I watched over Christmas break just the sales trickle in like one or two or three, you know, in a week.

And so immediately after that in January, I created another theme. It took me about a month to do a new HTML template. I released it. I went on a cruise with my wife for a babymoon. We were expecting our first child. And as soon as I launched it and I went on this cruise I started just getting nonstop sales like they were just flying in a night sky rocketed up till like the top seller on ThemeForest and had all these sales coming in and everybody was asking for me to make a WordPress theme out of it. But I didn’t know how to. I had never used WordPress. I had looked at it before and I kind of thought back then when I was investigating it. Two years before this, I looked at it and I said “Oh, it’s a really nice blog” And I moved on ’cause I didn’t need a blog right then. So I thought “OK, I’ve gotta do this.” You know it’s a great way if my customers are demanding it. If I’ve got people beating down my door asking me to build something that I already made and just ported over to another platform, then yeah I’m absolutely going to do it. So I took that first miserable failure of an HTML template that launched in December and used it as my Guinea pig. When I figured out WordPress wrote a theme out of that one in about two weeks, launch it just to get it out there and see what people were going to say and hear all the complaints about all the stuff I did wrong.

And while that information was coming in, I did the good theme on WordPress and I released that. And that’s when I started seeing the conversions really change over because of the difference in the demand for WordPress and also the higher price point for the themes. And it was right then that I was able to instantly recognize “OK, I can build a business out of this.” So I started doing additional themes and all that. I was always trying to do the themes from the standpoint of I wanted something unique and different about how they worked or the way the workflow happened like I wasn’t building themes like all the other WordPress themes out there because I wasn’t a WordPress person. I was looking at them from the standpoint of will, what does my customer need this to do? And then I had to figure out how to make it do that. So my themes never really followed the standard like do just what WordPress does, kind of thing. I always put all these extra things in there and it wasn’t a lot especially even back then it wasn’t a whole lot but I just did things a little bit differently. And I was able to find these little tweaks to do to him that got people’s attention.

And so I did that for a while and that’s when you know, things started happening where the WordPress industry over the next few years really changed as the additional features in WordPress came along and brought about new things that you had to do to have a competitive theme in that environment. Some of those things like custom post types and shortcodes and all of that just they changed everything about creating a WordPress theme. And as that happened, I involved with it and I did several really successful multipurpose themes. I always liked the more generic standpoint of those. I liked doing these things that you could build anything out of it ’cause that’s the product I wanted at the time. I wanted something that I could get and use to do whatever I needed to do with it. And that worked for me and we had a lot of success with it.

One of the things that I actually had the most success with was I did two BuddyPress themes and those were really popular. The only downside to it was that they also required a lot more investment of time after the release. So the support level was far higher for those products. So we actually, after we did those two themes we didn’t release a new product for two years because we were so busy with the incoming sales on those and the support for those that we just didn’t have time or I didn’t at the time. I had two people working for me but one was just working on a different product and the other one was just doing support who I hired shortly after the second of those themes came out. And when that started happening and I started seeing how hard it was to create a theme I tried a few more times after that where I did just basic you know, multipurpose themes. And I saw you know, one of them did really well. It was a top seller on Envato but it never sustained. And as that trickled down I started re-evaluating the marketplace and just WordPress in general looking at how things were happening.

And right about that time, I also started looking for ways to get outside of Envato and not because I thought that it was bad to be there. I had a lot of success there. We had great customers. We had an excellent relationship with Envato because they’re incredible people. If you’ve ever met the people who run the business or outstanding people with their incredibly generous and helpful and they work with you. But I didn’t like them being my only source of revenue for the business. They were, I mean by far 99% and I wanted to split that so that there were some just more security for the business. So as I looked at those things we created a framework called runway and we released that and I tried to build a business around that but it didn’t take off like I wanted it to. We still use it to this day to develop themes for ourselves, and our customers use it, and we have a lot of people working on it. But it wasn’t able to turn into its own product so we continued to maintain it and build on it. But we don’t really sell it anymore. We just open sourced the whole thing or already was open source but we just took away all of the options for people to even essentially pay for just support. We just took all that out now, it’s just out there and available.

So after that it was another evolution of well, what are we going to go at this and that’s when the opportunity to acquire UpThemes came around. And so we did that, and that worked really well with the direction change we had made with Parallelus where if we did a WordPress theme we were no longer doing a theme that was multipurpose and had everything you could possibly imagine. We had found the focus of doing niche themes that at that point in time we enjoyed it a lot more. The sales were better. It was more like doing the themes we were doing back in 2010 where they didn’t have to be the everything theme just because WordPress was less capable so there’s less stuff you have to put in.

Still very exhaustive at doing any WordPress theme now is a very complex process because there is so much it has to cover because there’s so many capabilities in WordPress you have to account for them all. You can’t just say, well we don’t let that feature work. But you know, you can’t do that so we focused on that. And when the UpThemes opportunity came around, that fit well because they do niche themes. They are very focused, they’re specialized, they’re simplified, they’re made to be really easy to use and extremely beautiful, just gorgeous themes that people don’t have to learn a whole new skill set to be able to create a beautiful website with but they know the website they’re building with it. They know what’s there, what it’s going to look like because they’re looking at the demo. And they know I’m not going to take this site that’s made to be a newspaper for an online magazine. And I’m not going to turn it into a site for a dentist and that’s what we didn’t want to have to account for. So that worked really well and so we did that acquisition and now we continue to do that occasionally you know, doing the research. And figuring out what theme we’re going to do turns into something much much bigger and it turns into its own business again. So we’re continuing to do lots and lots of new things. So that is my story.

Joe Casabona: Awesome, very cool. So that is quite a storied history. You have there, there is a lot for WordPress. I think the biggest takeaway is something that you ended on which was you’re here building themes for niche markets, right? So we are going to get into the general theme development stuff but I wanna ask you kind of your research methodology for how you stay on top of news within the WordPress theme development world. Like I’m sure you knew that things were coming down the Pike for theme development before they actually hit because you wanna make sure that your themes are on top of that. You wanted to use the latest that’s happening so research on staying on top of development, notes and things like that. But also when you’re researching to create a new niche theme what goes into that? And I know that, well, I know that you’re developing like a podcast theme. I don’t know if that’s public knowledge or if…

Andy Wilkerson: Yeah, yeah. It is. I talked to everybody. I can do about it. I love doing that.

Joe Casabona: Cool, very cool. So I know that you’re developing a podcast theme. So maybe we could talk about that like, what goes into what made you decide to develop a podcast team? And who did you talk to, what did you do to figure out the feature set?

Andy Wilkerson: Yes. OK so as far as research or keeping up with evolving trends in WordPress and news of what’s coming new features, I only do a really light version of that. I don’t constantly watch for you know, what’s the next thing that’s gonna be in you know, two or three releases from now of WordPress. I keep in touch with those things from the standpoint of I read about what the next version is going to have as the development is happening. And I try to make sure that I’m aware of those things so that yes, if I am developing a theme, I want to make sure it works. But also we have so many to maintain, we have to keep up with that to an extent. But I mostly rely on talking to other people and they, when I, you know, when I get into these conversations they tell me about the things that they’re hearing about and that are going on with them in their businesses were related to WordPress. And that’s actually where I get the most useful information most of the time. So I don’t do a lot of trying to always be on the cutting edge of what’s happening in the WordPress development you know, forums or anything like that.

With regard to research and figuring out what to do for a theme, typically we don’t have a theme that we’re gonna be doing because someone asked for it like we had a specific way. We were gonna be creating a theme in this area, we figured out what we wanted to do, what area we wanted to do it in, and that’s where most of the research happens as far as looking at different industries and where the niche might exist. So I actually do quite a bit of research in that case where I’m looking at trends even like using stuff like Google trends and things like that. But I’m looking at trends in, you know, on the Internet in general. What’s happening, what are people doing? And I will look to see you know, what’s doing well, what’s not doing well, what looks like it’s growing right now versus what may be had. It just so has so many potential customers that even if there are ten other themes doing it it doesn’t matter. There’s plenty of market share out there. I look at those things and then that’s how I usually pick the niche that I want to research and learn more about and see if there’s an opportunity to build a theme in that area. I always wanted to stand out somehow and be different in some way from what’s already out there already.

So with my Travel theme, there were a lot of travel themes and they all kind of bordered on the idea of being able to like book your trips and have search for flights and stuff like that. And I thought why do another one of those? I made one that was based around the idea of kind of like a guidebook where people you know, they talk about destinations and things that exist there and it’s more of like an index. So you know, you have that little twist on it. And there turns out there was a really big demand for that and we kind of had the idea of that. We knew there was ’cause we weren’t seeing any of them but there were so many sites that did that but no themes that were built just for that purpose. We were able to leave out all that other stuff so I do, I look at that once I’m past the point of knowing what the project is going to be and we’ve settled on for example like travel, that’s when I go and I look at real websites. I don’t look at other themes and what they’re doing. I look at real websites that are in that industry to figure out what features it needs to have, what design elements need to exist. And that gives me the real information I need to figure out what features, functionality, design elements I need to create. If I just look at other themes, all I’m going to do is create yet another WordPress theme that’s just like all the others. And I think too many theme developers don’t look at real websites like that. They just kind of guess about what they think customers are going to need and then they make it or they’re looking at other WordPress themes. So that’s most of the process of, you know, picking an area signing what to do.

Joe Casabona: That makes perfect sense, right? Because looking at an actual theme or of an actual website I should say, within the industries is almost like talking to the customer, talking to the user. You are seeing that things on their website that you know that they need as opposed to. You know before I started the podcast, I didn’t really know what a podcast website needed. Oh yeah, I guess I need a place to embed the audio I like but I didn’t know what else I did. And then when I built my podcasting plug and I was like man, it’s really hard like associating sponsors with the post easily and a couple of other things that I knew I wanted. So talking to the users or doing research on actual real-world like doing real-world case studies is absolutely a great way to research.

Andy Wilkerson: And that is another thing that we specially like for the podcasting product, we did interviews with podcasters. Mostly we focused on people who were either authorities within the podcasting industry. Who they gave other people advice on how to start, launch, succeed with the podcast or people who had just finished setting up their podcast. So they were new entrances and they had just gone through all the struggles. That’s what led us down the path to figure out what we wanted to make. It was originally going to be just a theme for podcasting to sell on UpThemes.com and we found that there was a much higher demand for something that did more than just what a theme would do. And so it evolved into this SAAS product that we’re developing now and that’s actually an incredibly fun project for me.

My partner in the project has a more background in podcasting. He knows more about it. He’s been in the industry and understands it. I don’t. I’ve only been a guest on a podcast so for me it’s interesting ’cause I get to be on the other side of the coin where I don’t have that burden of knowledge. So whenever things come around or it’s like we need to figure out what to do with this, I even tell him I’m like, “Don’t tell me how this is supposed to be or how everybody’s doing it ’cause I’ll look at it and see what I think it should be doing.” And then if I showed you and you’re like”Well, that doesn’t make any sense. And here’s why ’cause you don’t know about this.” I can say “Oh’ or maybe I’ll do something and you’ll say “Oh wow! Why aren’t more people doing it that way?” And it’s great. I don’t think I’ve ever been in this situation before where I had done you know, I had done such exhaustive research that I could do that. And it’s only because I have a partner on this project that makes it possible ’cause I can lean on him for that knowledge.

Joe Casabona: That’s excellent. So we touched a bit on the research. You mentioned that how you talk to lots of people and since we are, we’ve taken a lot of time to get here, so I want to really get into the meat of it which is how do you build a theme? So maybe you could start with like a high level overview, right? When you’re, let’s say you’re telling me how to build a WordPress theme, what are the main points you would hit on that, and then maybe we can dive a little deeper?

Andy Wilkerson: Well it has been so long since I’ve built a theme from nothing. That for me the starting point would be, it would come down to so I’ve gotten done all the research and I know what I’m gonna do and I know who I’m going to do it for and I know what features and functionality needs to have. I gotta get the design, right? And that’s the first thing I do is I figure out what it’s gonna look like now that I know everything it needs to do? And I’ll, you know, I’ll draw all that out myself in Photoshop and I’ll get the design pretty much Pixel perfect for how I wanted to look so that I know exactly how it’s not gonna look once I code it. And then once that’s done, I take that and I will convert it straight over into, I actually have gone back to building HTML versions before I go to the WordPress version now. The reason being, I like to make those HTML versions available to people. It turns out some of my customers after they get the WordPress version they realized you know, what I did get rather actually go back and use the HTML. This happened on both our Travel and Political themes that we released on Envato a couple of years ago. And we see almost as many sales of the HTML versions in some months as we do of the WordPress which is interesting. So I’ve gone back to doing that then I’ll take that and I’ll grab our runway framework or if it’s something we’re doing on UpThemes because we’re not using runway there, we will take basically a starter theme. We have that’s based on other themes that have been built for UpThemes.

And we start layering on top of those new features and functionalities. There’s usually almost nothing to strip out because it’s so bare bones to begin with. Start breaking out things that are functionality that needs to be plugin based. Although in the development process I will a lot of times just create a subdirectory of the theme that’s essentially named like to become plugins and do all the code in there for those sorts of things and then just break that out and turn it into a plug-in later just for the simplicity of not having to jump around from folder to folder or to make our repository a little bit easier to manage during the development stages. But we always end up breaking those things out and keeping track of them. That’s another interesting thing with the way things are now. I mean you do, you’re not just developing a theme anymore. If you’re developing a theme that has any kind of extended functionality that’s not a default feature of WordPress, you are creating a plugin to go with it. And so you know, a plugin installer of some sort, a starter kit, sweet home starter kits it’s like demo content installers. We have our own system for that, that we use. aAlot of those things have become necessities even for simple basic things like the ones we do on UpThemes that you really don’t have those you know, extra variations of the design. Or it’s like it can be all these different industries. we’re still putting those in there because people want that one click simplicity. And that’s what we want them to get is the simplicity and the ease of use. So telling them to go here and download this and download that and install this plugin and then upload this file. And you know, it’s so easy to do now those things were already there, just give him a button to click. And so we go through that process and then as we get closer to the release we will start writing our documentation based on some notes that we’ve made along the way. We’ll go ahead and get that up on our website and have it populated out, and will start taking screenshots ’cause we’re far enough along that we know exactly what things are going to look like in the end and we won’t have to change those.

And the last thing I do and I probably do this wrong. The last thing I do is the demo site and it’s the most important part of your marketing when you first release a theme is the demo website because it’s the piece that everyone looks at to judge your product. I talked to other theme developers and what they’ll do is they’ll build locally and as they’re creating their theme they’re making their demo website along the way. I don’t do that and partially because along the way I’ve had situations where when I got done with the theme and then I tried to install it somewhere I realized “Wow! Look at these things that didn’t work or showed up during the installation process that I wasn’t seeing because of the content I had already created or was using.” I discovered those things. I go through the same journey my customer goes through. Unfortunately though it often does lead to having to go back and fix things in your code. And if you’re using a website that like is on a hosted platform that has high levels of caching, you don’t really want to be making a lot of edits to your code and uploading them to your site during that. So the demo website building process is a painful but also very very important one.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. So OK that is great. I think there’s a couple of things I want to parse out here. So let’s start with the most recent first. Creating the demo site last is I think a great idea for exactly the thing you just said. You’re essentially doing like user acceptance testing on your own theme, right? Because somebody is not like building the demo theme, someone’s not going to build it piecemeal. They’re going to install the theme and then see the plugins and some things like that. So I think yeah, it’s not like cash ruins everything around me I think that’s why people say, right? That’s such a developery thing. It is terrible but I think it’s probably a good way to go because you’re experiencing your user’s experience and if you’re changing code now and it’s code that you’re probably not gonna have to change later you know, once people start buying the theme. So I think that’s great. So I want to touch on that, the creating the HTML version is something that I got away from a while ago. And reconsidering it, I’m glad you said that because I think especially if you’re first learning how to make a WordPress theme, right? Start with what you know, have the HTML and CSS. Those are big swaths of code that you understand and then create the WordPress theme around that so it allows you to focus on the design elements and the layout before you start getting into the murky waters of understanding what the loop is. And then he said that, you start breaking out functionality. Can you expand upon that a little more like how do you know what goes where when you take an HTML template and you convert it to a WordPress theme?

Andy Wilkerson: You have to have done enough to know when you’re making the HTML version. I mean it’s one of those things that as you’re doing each part of it you already know exactly what that’s going to be and how it’s going to be positioned in the WordPress theme. But you actually hit on a fantastic point there that what you said about your focus on the design when you’re doing to do in the HTML version the benefit I get most out of doing it that way, that changing the process back to how I used to do it where I’m starting with the HTML, I have found that I’m more productive that way because I don’t get bogged down by worrying about PHP and the functionality. And like you said the loops and all that kind of stuff when I should be just doing my CSS in my HTML. I’m solely focused on the way it looks and making it look just right. And when I’m done with that then I can worry about making it do all the things that has to do. So it does really streamline and keep me focused on the things I need to ’cause I promise if I’m working on doing the design in WordPress when I’m building it I will get distracted by features and functionality and theme options and stuff like that because sometimes if I can’t see those things yet if they’re not there physically in front of me I can’t think about other things. I get distracted by them.

Joe Casabona: Yeah. There’s been countless times where I’ll be making the WordPress theme and then I’ll make the spot for I don’t know the phone number or the email address and I’m like oh man, that should actually be like in the customizer are probably or the theme options page or whatever and then I’ll go, and I’ll develop that part. So now I have a half designed theme and half of the functionality is coded. So creating the HTML and then maybe like identifying the areas where “OK so this is the date. this will get the date function. This is the content. This will get the content function” helps you especially in the beginning. Map out this is the piece of content and this is where it should be in like this is how users will add it in WordPress and then development goes maybe not a lot faster but I would say a lot smoother.

Andy Wilkerson: You can break it up a little bit easier and have multiple people working on it sometimes this way and they were made focused. But you don’t have to, but you did. I mean you nailed it that’s exactly right. That’s how it streamlines things for me. And if you’re only doing it for yourself to have the HTML version and you’re not really going to be trying to sell it or distribute it, you skip having to do documentation and you don’t have to do every single page that’s going to exist, you just do the ones that have the content elements, the joint to need in order to build the WordPress version of it, and so you’re not repeating the steps of copying and pasting sidebars into a bunch of templates. Or if you wanted you could use a HTML builder like I don’t know jade or something like that, that gives you that automation as you’re doing it, the one advice I would give though if you are going to do the HTML version and turn it into a WordPress version, if you’re gonna want to maintain it that way, set up your project ahead of time so that all your Grunt stuff or whatever you’re using is automatically creating those style sheets for both projects at the same time. So it’s feeding into both of them so when you go and make a change you’re not getting out of date on one or the other. That’s been something that’s been really helpful for me.

Joe Casabona: And that’s really great point, right? ’cause front end development especially isn’t just writing HTML CSS anymore. It’s setting up your compilers and choosing Grunt or Gulp and then SAAS or less, oh what’s this, what’s Vue.js? like it’s a whole other conversation.

Andy Wilkerson: Totally missed the days of being able to just pop up in a text editor and change some code and be done. Now I gotta like run something and activate this and tell it to do this. And then when I’m done, then I can open up the file and make the changes because then it’ll do all the things it’s supposed to do after I save.

Joe Casabona: Yeah, yeah exactly. So it is, it’s fun. But man sometimes I miss the good old days.

So that wraps up part one. Hopefully you got some really great insight into who he is and how he works. And next week we’re going to be talking about team development generally. How you can learn and how both of us work to build themes. So make sure to again tune into that one. You’re going to learn a lot especially if you’re interested in starting to create things with WordPress. So make sure to keep an eye out for that.

Thanks Andy for all of this time we talked for about an hour. I’m very grateful for that. A

And thanks to our sponsors. Liquidweb and Project Panorama make sure to check those guys out. Liquid web is an excellent managed WordPress hosting company. And project panorama is a project management tool that you have complete control of built on top of wordPress. Sounds like those two can work very well together.

So final note, if you like the show make sure to rate us and review us on iTunes. It helps people discover us and I would deeply appreciate it. And if you do, let me know. I will read your review on the air.

All right. Until next week, get out there and build something.