Evan Calkins and Hoban Cards

Evan Calkins created Hoban Press & Hoban Cards after he bought his first letterpress machine. He’s a master of his craft and I was really excited to talk to Evan because I’m very interested in that creaft. He creates fantastic looking business cards and sationary, and even did my cards! We’ll talk about what it’s like doing a highly specialized thing in the real world – a physical product, and hear some good stories along the way.

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Transcript:

Hey everybody! And welcome to aniother episode of How I Built It, the podcast that asks, “How did you build that?” Today, my guest is Evan Calkins from HobanPress. I was really excited to talk to Evan because he does something I’m very interested in: letterpress. He creates fantastic looking business cards and sationary, and even did my cards! We’ll talk about what it’s like doing a highly specialized thing in the real world – a physical product! – but first, a word from our sponsors.

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And now, on with the show.

Joe: Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of How I Built It, the podcast that asks, “How did you build that?” Today, my guest is Evan Calkins of Hoban Press.

Evan, thanks for joining me today. How are you?

Evan: I’m doing well. It’s amazing. Great to be here.

Joe: Yeah. Thanks so much for being on the show. I am a big fan of your work. I’m about to get my second round of business cards from you guys.

Evan: Appreciate it.

Joe: Before I guess I weigh too deeply into that, why don’t you tell everybody who you are and what you do?

Evan: Yeah. Like you said, I’m Evan Calkins. I now run a very, very tiny letterpress printing shop out of Chehalis, Washington. And yeah, I got into that a few years ba- … actually, I’ve been doing letterpress printing for six or seven years. It started as a hobby and then it kind of shifted into a business, which I think happens a lot of times for folks. They start out with a hobby and then it kind of works its way into a business. So yeah, and I have a website. We pretty sell all of our orders through our websites. And yeah, so that’s what I do.

Joe: Cool, very cool. And one more fun fact about you as we record this, is you’re working your way driving across the country, like a road trip, right?

Evan: Yeah, yeah, that’s right. My family and I, my wife, my 11-year-old daughter, we’re driving across the US. We’ve taken a year. And we have a Volkswagen Vanagon.

Joe: Nice.

Evan: Yeah. We’re just driving across the US trying to go to pretty much all the major cities, see all the states. And I’ve kind of set my business up to where I can be traveling and I can be working from the road, which doesn’t really sound possible with letterpress printing, because it’s such a hands-on thing, but I have a couple amazing employees that help me out, so it’s been great.

Joe: Awesome. Yeah, I was going to ask about that. We talk about digital nomads, and obviously I can do basically everything I need to do from my laptop, but you work in a more physical product space. What’s a challenge of being out of the office for that long?

Evan: Yeah. The challenge was initially I taught myself how to letterpress print, so I got a big cast iron letterpress, which is kind of a story in and of itself, but then I had to sort of pass on these things that I learned to an employee of mine, which was one of my good friends, and then I hired another employee. So over the course of the last six months before we left on this trip, I had to set up the business to where they could do everything in the shop. And so there’s a lot of training, a lot of teaching. And then right now, I’m just on the road doing emails, doing sales, growing the business, doing marketing. I do a lot of design work that’s surrounding the business, so people will have me design business cards and logos and things like that. I do a little web development and stuff, software development on the side, as well.

So yeah, it’s been a really cool project, sort of experience to work on the road. Trying to find Starbucks and reliable WiFi to work out of has been interesting. It’s been a lot of fun, though.

Joe: Awesome. Yeah, so for any of you completely web-based people who say you can’t take a week off because you think your business will crash and burn, Evan is out of his office for a year in a place where he actually does physical things. So if you stop listening at this point, that is the takeaway.

Evan: Exactly.

Joe: But you should not stop listening, because there are a bunch of questions I’d like to ask you. And so the first question I have for you is, so you do business cards and you do letterpress. You said you’re self-taught. I guess how did you come up with the idea or more since I don’t think you invented letterpress, what made you realize that this is a good business to get into or a business you wanted to get into?

Evan: Yeah. So I think the best way to talk about this is maybe to tell the story from the beginning and how I acquired my first letterpress. So I’ve been involved in design, in web design, for a long time. I’m kind of self-taught, like a lot of us are. From my teens, I was working in Photoshop, and I’ve always had a passion for sort of typography, minimalism. I’ve always appreciated those type of things. I’ve always appreciated really good print work and I’ve loved to flip through magazines and admired the typography and things like that, so that’s kind of where it started.

And a long time ago, I really wanted my own letterpress-printed business cards, because at that time always viewed letterpress printing as sort of the pinnacle of printing. If I could get ahold of some letterpress cards, I feel like my business would just skyrocket, because everybody would appreciate them. So I searched for a print shop around my local area. Nobody, of course, did letterpress printing, because it’s a very old art that was taken over by offset printing. And I had a really hard time, even in bigger cities around me, finding somebody who could do this locally.

So I thought, “Why not I research it and figure out how these things are made, because I know they’re being made.” So I did a lot of research. I went on a lot of forums online. There’s a forum called Briar Press that’s an amazing forum for letterpress printing that’s been around for many years. There’s a lot of older letterpress printers on there sharing their knowledge and freely giving tips to continue the craft. So I started there, started doing research, and I figured, “Man, I need to get ahold of one of these old letterpresses. You can’t just go down to the store, go down to the local Staples and buy a letterpress. So you have to do some research.

So what I did is I sent out an email. I live in Western Washington. I sent out an email, pretty much all the print shops I could find on Google from Portland to Seattle. That was kind of the corridor that I live on. And the only email I got back was from a little print shop in my actual hometown, which is a very small town, on Interstate 5 there. In basically an email I asked folks, “Hey, do you have any old printing equipment laying around that I could either buy or have or come by and look at?” So this print shop emailed me and the woman said, “Yeah, I think I have something like that. Come take a look.”

So I went down there to a little basement of theirs, and sure enough, there’s this amazing letterpress. It was a 1902 Chandler & Price letterpress that weighs about 1,500 pounds.

Joe: Wow.

Evan: It’s made of cast iron. So I was able to acquire that from her. I disassembled it, cleaned it up, and that’s how I started with letterpress printing. And I took it to my garage and I just basically taught myself how to print. And yeah, that’s how I started. At least that’s how I started onto the hobby of letterpress printing. It turned into a business I think because I started printing cards for friends and families, and people were like, “Well, let me pay you for these.” And so I just continued to do that. And yeah, that’s kind of how it turned into a business.

Joe: Awesome. So I mean, it sounds like there was a lot of research involved just all around, like finding the machine. Lucky that it was in your hometown, right? I imagine it probably wouldn’t be very cheap to pick up or ship this machine to you, right? Can you give me an idea of how big it is?

Evan: Yeah. It’s pretty big. They are very difficult to ship, and this being in a basement, we had to actually disassemble it in the basement, sort of haul it out piece by piece with a … I don’t know if you’ve ever seen an engine hoist that grabs hold of engines that you work on. So we used one of those, because nobody could … I can’t just get like five or six guys to pick up the pieces. They’re fragile, they’re cast iron, so if they fall, they break easily. So yeah, it is hard to acquire these things. You can find them on Craigslist and things like that, but it takes a lot of skill to get them out of wherever they are. So yeah, that was sort of an adventure in itself, just getting the letterpress into my garage, yeah.

Joe: Man, that’s wild. And so now you have this machine. You started doing letterpress business card and things like that for your friends, and they wanted to pay you. At what point did you decide, “All right, this is a viable business for me. I think enough people are willing to pay me to do this”?

Evan: Yeah. So at the time I was working for my local county, actually, as a software developer in their IT department, and so I was sort of moonlighting on the side, sort of half moonlighting, half doing this as a hobby. And since I was a web developer, I figured, “Well, why don’t I just make myself a very simple site, throw it up.” And that’s when I got the idea to make these very simple what I call calling cards. They’re sort of distinguished themselves from business cards in that they’re very simple, very typographic, and they’re mainly meant to have your name on them rather than a business name. And you know what I’m talking about.

So what I did is I worked up six templates. There were just six options that you could have. It was a one-page website. There wasn’t even an about page, a contact page, just one page with these six templates and a PayPal button, basically, to check out with.

And so I threw this up, and I had a little bit of success with it. I was surprised that I got some organic Google traffic from just having this simple one-page layout. But really what kicked off the business is that … I don’t know if you know who Kevin Rose is. He’s an investor, Silicon Valley investor, and he started Digg.

Joe: Digg? Yeah, yeah.

Evan: Yeah, the original digg.com. I was listening to a podcast he was doing at the time, and he mentioned somewhere in the podcast wanting cool business cards. In I was like, “You know? Why don’t I guess what email address his is, and just send him and email and tell him I’ll make him a free batch.” So I guessed his email address and sent him this email, and like within five minutes he emailed me back and was like, “Dude, I would love for you to make me cards, and I’ll pay you for them.” And so I made him these cards, I shipped them to him, and he actually Tweeted out my web page, and that’s kind of what kicked off my business is reaching out to this influencer and then them making a Tweet, and that’s kind of how I started.

Joe: Man, I had no idea about that. I’m so glad that you told this story, because that’s awesome. I tell a lot of people, “How do you get sponsors and how do you do this?” And I’m just like, “I just ask. I just ask.”

Evan: Exactly.

Joe: And the fact that you just acted on that and were like, “This guy is an influencer, he wants cool business cards, I can do that,” that’s amazing, which is really cool. And as far as your templates go, I’m looking at them right now. I’ll link them in the show notes. I think the trade card … I don’t think. I’m looking at my business card. It looks exactly like the trade card. So that was the one I went with.

So why don’t you tell us maybe a little bit about your process, right? ‘Cause again, we talk to, or I talk to a lot of developers and people in the software space. I’m venturing more into the physical realm of things. I talk to Brad Dowdy, The Pen Addict from Nock Co., and things like that. And so what’s the process for creating a business card, or maybe just the general letterpress process? How does that work?

Evan: Yeah. So back in the old days, they used what was called movable type. It was a set of … basically a font, right? It was lead, and you were only able to print with the lead type that you owned, right? So maybe you’d owned five or six different fonts in different variations. Maybe you had some italics and different sizes, point sizes of that font.

The way we print, we don’t set type like that anymore. We make a plate. So what we do is we start with a design first, so depending on if I have a custom card that somebody submits to me or one that I’m designing, I usually lay it out in Illustrator, Adobe Illustrator. And then once the design is finalized, we create a actual physical letterpress plate from that file, which is sort of a raised … all the surfaces that get printed are raised up out of the plate, and then we adhere that plate to our press with a special aluminum base that we use on our press.

In the industry, there’s something called type high. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard that term before, but it’s an old term meaning the height that lead type were from the base of the press. And so what happens is we use this aluminum base. We stick the plate on, and that makes a perfect type high base for us to print the cards on. So once we have that, we make a plate for every color that’s used on a card. So like your cards that you got are just one color, so we just have one plate, but if they had two or three colors, we’d have to make a separate plate for every one of those colors. So if anybody’s ever done screen-printing, they know of kind of that process. You have to make a separate screen for each one of the colors that you’re doing.

And then we used really nice 100% cotton, really toothy, textured cotton paper. And so we cut the paper to size and then we hand-feed those through the press. So if somebody orders 500 cards, we’re physically hand-feeding those 500 times through the press. If they have three colors, we’re physically touching those cards 1,500 times. So it’s a very time-consuming process, which is one of the reasons why it’s expensive compared to conventional printing methods.

So yeah, that’s the basic process that a card goes through.

Joe: Wow. That’s wild. And I’ve got to say, yes, it is time-consuming and it is a little bit more expensive, but in my opinion it is totally worth it. I’ve gotten so many compliments on my cards that I got from you guys, ’cause I had a double, I had it pressed on the front and the back the first batch through. So I got comments on the thickness and how nice it looked. In the meantime, between the time I placed my second order and the time I should receive them, which will be in probably a couple of weeks, I got cards from moo.com that I designed, so I controlled the font and everything like that, and they just, they look like what I paid for. And that’s not a knock against MOO or anybody who gets their cards from MOO, but after having these beautifully letter-pressed cards, it’s kind of hard to go back to more conventional kind of looking cards.

Evan: Yeah. It’s funny, because I end up … when I talk to folks about what I do, you come across people, “What do you do for a profession?” And then I start telling them about letterpress printing and the cards I make, and maybe I’ll give them one of my cards, and then they make a comment, something like, “Oh, I need to get cards from you.” And I ask them what they do, and they say, “I’m a real estate agent.” And I ask them how many cards they give out, and they’re like, “Oh, I set a batch of 500 on my desk and I give out 50 of them a day.” I usually end up talking that person out of ordering cards from me, mainly because that’s sort of not the use case. It can be, I guess, but that’s not really … it’s not cost-effective. It would get pretty expensive if you’re giving out 50 cards a day.

So I usually end up talking them out of it, or I talk them into ordering a very small amount of cards from me, maybe 100 cards, and then supplementing their existing maybe MOO cards, like you were saying, and you feel more free to give out those MOO cards. You feel more free to maybe waste some, put them on a desk.

Joe: Totally.

Evan: And then you can save a really nice batch of your 100 letterpress cards for maybe some special interactions that you’re having, maybe a special meeting. I think that’s a really good use case. Even Vistaprint, sometimes I encourage people, “Why don’t you go but 5,000 cards on Vistaprint. It’s not a big deal. It’s a tool, a business card is a tool, and I try not to get too sort of uppity on letterpress printing, but I think it serves a specific use case, if that makes sense.

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Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, to equate that to if somebody comes to me and they say they need a website and it’s just a standard kind of brochure site and they don’t have a huge budget, I’m like, yeah, go to Squarespace or Wix or whatever.

Evan: Exactly, exactly.

Joe: I’m primarily a WordPress developer. I’m not going to tell you that you need a $5,000 WordPress custom website if you don’t. So it makes perfect sense. There’s kind of a place for each type of these things, but man, it’s … I’ve got to say, I guess I can’t say everybody, but most people who have gotten my card has commented on it in some way. I think it does create a memorable experience. So I’ll give one out at conferences where people are meeting a million people, but mine will be the card that stands out.

Evan: Exactly. Yeah, they’re kind of like little pieces of art, which I like to describe them as. And people feel bad almost if they … I don’t know if you’ve ever had this happen, but I hear from customers a lot where you’ll give a card out and the person will actually want to give it back, because they, like, “Don’t waste this on me.” But it’s just a funny thing that happens. But yeah, when people receive them, they seem to want to kind of treasure them or keep them, which is really cool to hear. And I totally get it.

Joe: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, so actually, on your site you do have a reference to the movie I’m about to reference. Everybody’s like, “Oh, man, this is like an American Psycho card,” right?

Evan: Exactly. Oh, man, that’s funny, because the longest time I held off making an American Psycho Paul Allen card. If you’re in the letterpress printing, it’s so worn out. You hear it so much. To somebody who’s not, it’s like, “I’m going to make this comment under your Instagram photo about the American Psycho card.” It’s just funny, because if you’re in my shoes, you’ve heard it a million times. And so I’ve held off making one of those cards, but I finally did, and it’s been one of the biggest hits on Hoban Cards is that Paul Allen card, which actually I redesigned because I didn’t like the original card. So I took the same format of it and used a different font and kind of did my own spin on it.

Joe: Man, that’s awesome. 40% of the people I give the cards to are like, “Man, this is like …” I’m like, “Yes.” Cool, very cool.

So it looks like kind of looking at the cards that you have on your site, you have all different types of layouts, fonts. You have a really thin font, I see?

Evan: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Joe: And you mentioned that you do kind of custom stuff, too?

Evan: Sure.

Joe: Are there limitations to letterpress or are there things that are maybe extremely hard to do? If somebody wanted to get a letterpress business card, what would you recommend?

Evan: Yeah, there definitely are limitations, more than any other type of printing, actually, especially modern printing. One of the limitations is that letterpress printing, unless you really have some different type of equipment and techniques, it’s hard to spread a lot of ink over a large amount of surface. So a lot of people come to me and say, “Hey, can I have one entire side of my card black and then the other side white?” And that can be done with certain letterpresses, but letterpress printing was originally meant to print type. It wasn’t meant to print graphics, necessarily. It can print little wing bats and things like that in the early days, but it was mainly meant to print type. And so that’s kind of what I’ve chosen to do.

There’s a lot of letterpress printers out there that you can find, you can go to their websites and they just have amazingly intricate work. And it’s amazing and I love it, but that’s kind of not what I’ve chosen to do. I’ve kind of chosen to keep to the typographic nature of letterpress printing.

So yeah, spreading ink over a large surface is a limitation. Obviously you can’t reprint solid colors one at a time, so you can’t do a lot of gradients, and so you obviously can’t do photos. So it lends itself just intrinsically to minimalism, I think. And so I want to really take hold of that.

And something designer that I’ve always loved to do, and especially as a web designer, is designing within your limitations, right?

Joe: Yeah.

Evan: When you’re a web designer, you have … more so in the old days when you had very specific browser widths and heights, you had a very specific thing you had to design within. And so I’ve embraced that with what I do with making these calling cards. You have a very limited canvass you’re working on, but I love it. I love the challenge of trying to make it as clean and minimal as I can, but not boring. Does that make sense?

Joe: Yeah, definitely.

Evan: So yeah, I think I’ve kind of answered your question. I kind of like the limitations and I kind of embrace them.

Joe: Yeah, that’s fantastic. And the thing that made me think of that was my good friend, Brian Richards, from WPSessions, also cards made up by you guys. And it’s funny that you mentioned specifically the solid color, because I think, if I recall correctly, he wanted that done, so he had I guess it was maybe a teal, closer to green, with his logo on there. But I definitely bounced ideas off of him for the second round, because my logo has two colors in it, and then if I did black, that would be a third color, and so you’re able to simplify. Again, I’m very excited to see my cards.

Evan: Cool. Right on.

Joe: That’s fantastic. So we’re coming up on time somehow. But there are a couple of more questions I did want to ask. Maybe these can be more rapid-fire questions. And the first is, how did you come up with pricing for this sort of stuff? Is it based on design, complexity, demand? It’s kind of easy to slap any old price on software as long as people are willing to pay that, because you don’t have the … You have to factor in support and things like that, but you don’t necessarily have to factor in materials, for example.

Evan: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, there’s a lot more overhead and things to consider than when you’re just making software for people, for sure. So you have the type of paper you’re using, the thickness of the paper. I’ve mentioned the number of colors. Obviously the quantity of cards. The number of colors dictates how long they’re going to take to print, and obviously a quantity will increase the length. And so over time, what I’ve done is I’ve created a big spreadsheet that me and my employees can refer to, to price cards. Yeah, and so it all comes in, and it’s just something we’ve worked out over time. I think that initial website I was talking to you, when I had six templates, I just kind of guessed at it, and then we’ve kind of tweaked the prices from there. So yeah, that’s kind of how we’ve done it.

Joe: Cool, very cool. As a quick aside, since you keep mentioning the website, and this is mostly a WordPress audience I think I know the answer to this, but what are you using to power your website?

Evan: I’m so glad you asked. I’ve listened to several of your podcast and I know you’re pretty WordPress centric, and I wanted to hear what your reaction was when I tell you my site is Drupal.

Joe: Wow, awes- Well, so I was investigating before, and that’s what I thought. I mean, it’s a beautiful website.

Evan: Thank you.

Joe: And Drupal is maybe the second largest competitor to WordPress. Was there a reason that you decided to go with Drupal over anything else? I won’t specifically say WordPress, but you have an online shop, so maybe Shopify or something like that?

Evan: Yeah. Actually, I tried out a bunch, and before I had a CMS to manage my store, it was actually just a very static website that I built, like I said, with sort of PayPal buttons and stuff like that. That worked out. It just didn’t scale to the demand, obviously, and I wanted something a little bit more complex. And so I did a bunch of … I tried WordPress. The reason why I went with Drupal … I think WordPress aesthetically as far as the code goes was a little bit more down my alley, how they managed themes. I’m a designer. I like to get into theme code and make my own themes and something like that. WordPress was a little more clean to me, but the reason why I chose Drupal was because of a feature called views. I don’t know if you’ve ever used Drupal, but there’s a module, a very popular Drupal module called views that lets you basically build your own pages out of any data that’s in the shipbuilder. So you can easily just grab anything you want and create these very complex views.

Because I wasn’t too keen on actually getting in and building my own modules for Drupal and doing that stuff but I still wanted to create, have my hands completely on not only the layout but the data, I ended up choosing Drupal. And I had to do a lot of … not a lot, but a couple months of YouTube videos training myself to use Drupal and things like that. And right now I’m super stoked on Drupal. There’s a lot of things that’s terrible about it, but I actually love the fact that I can spin up a new page and work with the data how I want. It’s just how my mind works, you know?

Joe: Yeah, absolutely.

Evan: And of course, there’s just endless amount of modules, and the community’s huge. And there’s help and Drupal developers, if you need to hire them, all over the place.

Joe: Nice, very nice. And what you say makes perfect sense. I think maybe the biggest pitfall of WordPress for me is how they handle data. Everything is just a post and it goes into the post table. That could be handled a lot better, I think. But there’s a lot of technical debt now associated with that particular database architecture. I mean, I haven’t really touched Drupal, but what you said there just kind of makes me want to open it up and see what’s going on there.

Evan: Yeah. I think if you’re a designer and you’ve done a lot of front-end design but you also understand how a database works, Drupal’s an amazing tool for you to get in and to be your own developer. What I call Drupal is you have to be a configuration developer. I mean, there’s some configuration of WordPress, but it’s just like everything you’re doing is on user interface configuring things, which feels kind of messy and dirty, but it works out in the end.

Joe: Nice. That’s fantastic. Cool. So we talked about creating letterpress stuff and how that worked. We talked about how you acquired your letterpress machine and pricing and your website now. So I guess I’ll end on the two questions I always end with, which one, do you have any plans for the future, and two, do you have any trade secrets for us?

Evan: Yeah. Plans for the future, I am trying to understand marketing a little bit better with my business. I’m really trying to figure out clever ways to market Hoban Cards, because I think a lot of people like the product and I’m kind of adverse to using slimy marketing techniques and stuff like that, and so yeah, plans for the future is just growing it. And as much as I love actually doing the letterpress printing, I love kind of taking this tiny little business and seeing what I can do with it.

So just expanding the site, making more designs available. I think I’m going to expand my stationery offerings, ’cause right now I have calling cards. We also do sort of stationery and stationery sets, where you have a matching calling card. And I might try to expand, too, writing stationery. Maybe get ahold of some of The Pen Addict guys and figure out what papers are good to use of that.

Joe: Oh, man.

Evan: Yeah. So that’d be a lot of fun.

Joe: Awesome. Well, if you need somebody to test anything that you’re making, you let me know, ’cause I am … I don’t know if a lot of people know this about me ’cause I’m so embedded in the tech world, but I’m a huge stationery nerd.

Evan: Awesome.

Joe: I have tons of fountain pens and things like that. I very much love the analog world as much as the tech world. But sorry to-

Evan: Yeah. We should team up and do a little testing. I’d love to create some cool, not so much notebooks, but little personalized pieces of writing stationery, just like old-school writing stationery. So that’d be a lot of fun.

Joe: Yeah, absolutely. Cool, very cool.

Evan: Yeah. So as far as a trade secret, there’s many technical trade secrets I could share as far as letterpress printing goes, but I don’t think I could explain them well, and they probably wouldn’t be applicable to your audience.

But I think more generally a trade secret would be to I think try to be clever with … like I was talking about how I originally sent that email to Kevin Rose. And when I emailed out all the print shops in my area asking for … just try to be clever with how you’re getting into your business and what your passion is. Try to do things a little bit differently than everybody else around you is doing them. And I think just to be honest. Don’t try to make any shortcuts. Be honest with your marketing and how you present yourself.

As far as marketing goes, I’m just kind of getting into the looking more into marketing, and there’s this temptation I think to subscribe to all the SEO Newsletters you can and sort of try to hack the system as much as you can. And I think the more that you’re just doing what you love, that you’re honest, you’re putting out good content, you’re just going to rise to the top organically. And then just, yeah, find a niche you love, and do it.

Joe: Awesome. I love that. That sounds great. I try to do the same thing. I don’t really like the … you know there’s like the expiring sale and stuff like that that you see on … like the perpetual sale on websites all the time and other kind of not lying, but kind of disingenuous. And so I like the be honest, be clever sort of takeaway.

Evan: Yeah, cool.

Joe: Yeah. So thanks so much for joining me today, Evan. Where can people find you?

Evan: Yeah. People can follow me personally on Twitter, if you want, at Evan Calkins. And then you can check out my … My calling card website is hobancards.com, so it’s H-O-B-A-N, card.com. I’m sure you’ll link it up. And then my custom stuff is hobanpress.com. So I kind of have two areas of the business where I’m doing custom stuff, so if you want your logo and maybe you have your own design that you want printed, you can hit me up there.

Joe: Awesome. Yes, and I will definitely link all of those in the show notes.

And dear listeners, I’m giving you a call to action. I mentioned one pop culture reference on the calling cards page. I just noticed at least another one, so you should head over there and see how many pop culture references you can find.

Evan: Pretty much all the cards have a pop culture reference. So if you’re into TV shows, then go check it out.

Joe: Thanks again to Evan for joining me today! It was incredibly interesting to hear about how he got his equipment and his start. Letterpress is a tricky business and he does it really well! Be sure to check out his work at hobancards.com.

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